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Ian-Stewart
Scratcher
500+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

(Post deleted by writer)

Last edited by Ian-Stewart (Sept. 28, 2019 18:31:08)


My signature was completely outdated and a new one is under construction.
--Explosion--
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

awsm sugggestn suprot XD Great post
Ian-Stewart
Scratcher
500+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

Wow, this is one of the BEST guides I've seen! By the way, nice banner! Thanks so much!

My signature was completely outdated and a new one is under construction.
niamrogn
New to Scratch
100+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

Useful and valuable tips.

I believe that the best way to help people understand the world is to provide them with opportunities to actively explore, experiment, and express themselves.
Mitchel Resnick
Nambaseking01
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

Support

Err I mean great post XD

Last edited by Nambaseking01 (Dec. 1, 2019 11:01:18)


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cs2566336
Scratcher
24 posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

I think everybody should say something without a whole argument. Someone says their idea but if someone doesn't like it, then the person who doesn't like it, share their ideas and maybe make the person's idea better, make sure they agree.
If nothing makes you feel better once you get yourself into an argument, just start over, you don't want that person to hate you for it

Not sure if any of this helps or not, -cs2566336 (or cs)
WindOctahedron
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

Maybe you can add this there?
To people who don't support a block, just because “it can be abused”:
Firstly, more blocks can be abused than you think.
Yes, the “username” block is not the only one.
(current [hour v]) // Can be abused to let people only play at midnight.
<key (join [] []) pressed?> // Can be abused to let only people with some special keyboards play.
(language :: pen) // Can be abused to let only people who can speak a specific language play.*
*It's less severe than the other cases, because it can be changed very easily, but it's still not okay.

Secondly, if you see any abusing of blocks in a project, just report it. You can also (in most cases) look inside and edit the code.

Lastly, there is one thing that no one has pointed out yet: it's not the blocks themselves that are problematic, but the scripts (combinations of different blocks) they can be used in.
Why? Well, a block has a thousand uses.
Let me illustrate this with the “mouse x/y” block. You are probably wondering, “How can it be abused?”
It was used in a “See inside” detector (I won't tell you whose, to avoid naming and shaming). I could've included a link to it, but it was taken down. However, I understand the reason why: they (probably) did so because it could be used to prevent users from seeing inside. People could have used it to run a lag-creating script (using clones or lists, for example) to crash the page or make it lag so severely that the user couldn't even move the cursor on the screen.
Does that mean that the “mouse x/y” block should be removed? No. Plus, it has lots of other uses, which can make a project creative, beautiful, fun and unique.

So does a block deserve a “no support” just because it can be abused? No. So please think of other possible uses of the block, and then decide if you support or not.

Credit to mica43683 for giving me the idea of the “current hour” block.
Feel free to edit the text to your own preferences and needs.

Last edited by WindOctahedron (May 16, 2020 16:28:53)


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Zerofile
Scratcher
22 posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

WindOctahedron wrote:

Maybe you can add this there?
To people who don't support a block, just because “it can be abused”:
Firstly, more blocks can be abused than you think.
Yes, the “username” block is not the only one.
(current [hour v]) // Can be abused to let people only play at midnight.
<key (join [] []) pressed?> // Can be abused to let only people with some special keyboards play.
(language :: pen) // Can be abused to let only people who can speak a specific language play.*
*It's less severe than the other cases, because it can be changed very easily, but it's still not okay.

Secondly, if you see any abusing of blocks in a project, just report it. You can also (in most cases) look inside and edit the code.

Lastly, there is one thing that no one has pointed out yet: it's not the blocks themselves that are problematic, but the scripts (combinations of different blocks) they can be used in.
Why? Well, a block has a thousand uses.
Let me illustrate this with the “mouse x/y” block. You are probably wondering, “How can it be abused?”
It was used in the “See inside” detector. I could've included a link to it, but it was taken down. However, I understand the reason why: they (probably) did so because it could be used to prevent users from seeing inside. People could have used it to run a lag-creating script (using clones or lists, for example) to crash the page or make it lag so severely that the user couldn't even move the cursor on the screen.
Does that mean that the “mouse x/y” block should be removed? No. Plus, it has lots of other uses, which can make a project creative, beautiful, fun and unique.

So does a block deserve a “no support” just because it can be abused? No. So please think of other possible uses of the block, and then decide if you support or not.

Credit to mica43683 for giving me the idea of the “current hour” block.
Feel free to edit the text to your own preferences and needs.

The thing is it doesn't matter if it is “abused”. A project that only lets you play at a certain hour should not be reported, sure it is impractical for *you* but the creator hasn't may not have intended it a wide range and does not deserve to have their project taken down.

Please don't report projects for this.

Last edited by Harakou (May 16, 2020 16:34:03)


thanks for the website ST
WindOctahedron
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

Zerofile wrote:

WindOctahedron wrote:

-snip-
The thing is it doesn't matter if it is “abused”. A project that only lets you play at a certain hour should not be reported, sure it is impractical for *you* but the creator hasn't may not have intended it a wide range and does not deserve to have their project taken down.

Please don't report projects for this.
The “current hour” block is always set to the project player's timezone, meaning that no matter where you live, it would always set to “0” at midnight.
And restricting a group of people from playing a project is violating the “Share” and “Be respectful” guidelines (you are hiding something and don't respect that some people don't stay up until midnight), so it should be reported.

Last edited by WindOctahedron (Dec. 9, 2019 14:42:24)


This post is brought to you by WindOctahedron's brain™, the brain of our queen of acronyms, or quofac.
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Nambaseking01
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

WindOctahedron wrote:

Maybe you can add this there?
To people who don't support a block, just because “it can be abused”:
Firstly, more blocks can be abused than you think.
Yes, the “username” block is not the only one.
-snip-
Feel free to edit the text to your own preferences and needs.

I strongly agree that this needs to get added to the list. You can abuse pretty much every block on Scratch (even variables in a whole roundabout way) so this is probably no correct reason to not support on a suggestion.

Nambaseking01 (Nammy) | 4.8k+ Posts | Stay Safe | My Quality Scratch Shop

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MathlyCat
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

WindOctahedron wrote:

Zerofile wrote:

WindOctahedron wrote:

-snip-
The thing is it doesn't matter if it is “abused”. A project that only lets you play at a certain hour should not be reported, sure it is impractical for *you* but the creator hasn't may not have intended it a wide range and does not deserve to have their project taken down.

Please don't report projects for this.
The “current hour” block is always set to the project player's timezone, meaning that no matter where you live, it would always set to “0” at midnight.
And restricting a group of people from playing a project is violating the “Share” and “Be respectful” guidelines (you are hiding something and don't respect that some people don't stay up until midnight), so it should be reported.
Time-ism?

I think their argument is fair, and what if it's a project that is as simple as a clock that reads correctly? It's discriminating against you for not allowing you to see any other time, just like it's not discriminating for someone's project to do x at a certain time.

There's no need to over-exaggerate the issue. The original point was countering the idea that blocks can be ‘abused’ being used as an argument.

Think before you act.
Actions speek louder than words.

hi there fella
-FasterThanLight-
Scratcher
100+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

I have something to add:

-FasterThanLight- wrote:

Please, make sure that you know what the suggestion is about before trying to say Yes or No. I've seen some people out there who do things like this:

Person wrote:

I want this block:
open url [https://scratch.mit.edu/ v] [] :: events

SomeDude wrote:

No support, this would lead to the dreaded
open url [http://getavirusnow.com]
The OP said it would only work for Scratch URLs, yet the other person doesn't seem to care. I've seen this so much in these types of block suggestions.


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Nambaseking01
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

-FasterThanLight- wrote:

I have something to add:

-FasterThanLight- wrote:

Please, make sure that you know what the suggestion is about before trying to say Yes or No. I've seen some people out there who do things like this:

Person wrote:

I want this block:
open url [https://scratch.mit.edu/ v] [] :: events

SomeDude wrote:

No support, this would lead to the dreaded
open url [http://getavirusnow.com]
The OP said it would only work for Scratch URLs, yet the other person doesn't seem to care. I've seen this so much in these types of block suggestions.

Thank goodness you mentioned this. I've been a forum helper since July 2019 and this issue has bothered me so much, it's so irritating! People need to understand something before randomly deciding that it's a bad idea. Instead of looking properly and searching for the advantages first, people want to object and don't look at all and just list all of the disadvantages.

Nambaseking01 (Nammy) | 4.8k+ Posts | Stay Safe | My Quality Scratch Shop

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BearSlothCoding
Scratcher
500+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

“Discussion”, that is, if you can call it that, like this only teaches newcomers to these forums that this is the norm here and that it is to be followed. It teaches them to not think about suggestions they are reading and either dismiss them using a tag line or say what everyone else has been saying, while maybe adding an ‘as per this’ to give some illusion of originality. It teaches them to blend in with everyone else. It teaches them to not deviate from convention.

I can not agree with this enough. When I first discovered the forums, that what I thought you did. That's what I thought was helpful. I thought the lengthy posts were for people with really good stuff to add, not just for your opinion and your possibly not that helpful ideas that still make a difference. The “support” and “no support” posts really taught me wrong and I can only imagine how many other people that has happened to.

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-FasterThanLight-
Scratcher
100+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

Sigton wrote:

dude341 wrote:

1st suggestion: No support, what if people want say that they like/don't like the suggestion? I also like it when people say Support or No support because then I know if my suggestion is good or bad.
Then they say “I like this suggestion”! This whole support convention has done nothing to help the suggestions forum, in fact it has done exactly the opposite. It ahs turned this forum into a competition rather than an improvement scheme.

Sigton
You spelled ‘has’ wrong.


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-FasterThanLight-
Scratcher
100+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

I have something to add…
When making a suggestion, please first think of at least two ways that this suggestion would be useful. If you can't think of two, or your use cases, or a situation where you would use it are very specific and might not apply to everybody, your suggestion might not be as useful as you think.


✭✭✭ FasterThanLight ✭✭✭
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Nambaseking01
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

-FasterThanLight- wrote:

I have something to add…
When making a suggestion, please first think of at least two ways that this suggestion would be useful. If you can't think of two, or your use cases, or a situation where you would use it are very specific and might not apply to everybody, your suggestion might not be as useful as you think.

Agreed.

I see suggestions like “lEt uS cUsTomIzE OuR sCrAtchEr And NeW sCratcher rAnkS” and then I get so frustrated when they have no reasons at all. I do see “just for fun” though which is more annoying.

Nambaseking01 (Nammy) | 4.8k+ Posts | Stay Safe | My Quality Scratch Shop

#StopFalseReporting | My Scratch Suggestion | WASH YOUR HANDS!

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gaming271
Scratcher
63 posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

Add that DON'T put threads that are not even suggetions or are useless. I saw a forum post that literally was called “ ” (yes with a bunch of spaces and that is it) and when I went to it, there was nothing in the post! Just a blank post, with no text, which was just a waste.

Some scratch blocks V :: hat motion
(a stack :: stack operators) (a hat :: hat motion) (a cap :: cap control) (() ring :: ring variables) (boolean :: boolean pen) :: stack sensing
These can be very useful for suggestions = <true :: motion> :: operators
:: cap sensing
Nambaseking01
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

gaming271 wrote:

Add that DON'T put threads that are not even suggetions or are useless. I saw a forum post that literally was called “ ” (yes with a bunch of spaces and that is it) and when I went to it, there was nothing in the post! Just a blank post, with no text, which was just a waste.

But that is not related to constructiveness, that is spam and that is way worse. If a person continuously does that, they could get banned, but it's not the case like that with constructiveness.

Nambaseking01 (Nammy) | 4.8k+ Posts | Stay Safe | My Quality Scratch Shop

#StopFalseReporting | My Scratch Suggestion | WASH YOUR HANDS!

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WindOctahedron
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Constructive Recommendations On How to Respond to and Make Suggestions!

Another thing that could be added:
We see rejected suggestions every day. However, I've seen this kind of replies to them multiple times:
rejected
No reasons are provided. The list rejected suggestions is not even mentioned, let alone linked to.

Imagine that you asked your older sibling for a cookie, but (s)he said “no”, and went away. You'd very likely be wondering why, or at most be angry.
Simply replying “rejected” is a similar scenario here, except that you are now the older sibling.
It results in confusion, or, even worse, “you are not even a member of the Scratch Team”, similarly to your reaction to the “no”.

So if you see a rejected suggestion, please provide a quote from this list, or at least explain why is it rejected in your own words and provide a link to the list.

Last edited by WindOctahedron (April 13, 2020 15:04:12)


This post is brought to you by WindOctahedron's brain™, the brain of our queen of acronyms, or quofac.
I is next to U on a QWERTY keyboard. WE are neighbors.
Chain letters are spam, and are against the rules. Copy and paste this message on 10 different profiles to get reported!*
*This is not meant to threaten anyone, and it's just a joke based on irony. Still, the first sentence is true, so don't copy and paste this.

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